The actor Amanda Abbington says she first complained to the BBC about her dance accomplice Giovanni Pernice inside days of beginning Strictly Come Dancing.
She then pulled out in week six – citing “private causes”.
Months later, an ongoing investigation into complaints about his alleged instructing strategies led to him being disregarded of the 2024 sequence line-up.
Now she is talking out publicly, accusing him of “abusive, merciless and imply” behaviour.
Giovanni Pernice has persistently denied wrongdoing, and tonight a spokesperson informed us that he refutes any declare of threatening or abusive behaviour, whereas the BBC says it takes responsibility of care extraordinarily severely.
However Amanda Abbington says she and her household are actually being subjected to “brutal, relentless and unforgiving” abuse by Strictly followers.
She is about to look in a brand new play, concerning the aftermath of abuse in a household, known as “When it Occurs to You” on the Park Theatre in London. Krishnan met her there at rehearsals.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Amanda, it’s very good to see you. I haven’t seen you since week 5 I believe…
Amanda Abbington: I do know.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: …of Strictly. And right here you might be in north London, doing a play known as ‘When It Occurs to You’.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: If you find yourself proper in the midst of all of it taking place to you.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, sure, however it’s very cathartic. This can be a lovely play. And it’s come simply on the proper second.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: How are you?
Amanda Abbington: See, you say that query, and I instantly get emotional and begin to cry. I’m okay. You already know. I’m okay.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I imply, this isn’t a traditional interview as a result of we have been on the present collectively.
Amanda Abbington: Within the trenches.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure, and I noticed you having a tough time. And also you’ve had a really arduous yr.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. It’s not been simple. This play has, it’s definitely strengthened my perception you could be in a rehearsal room and be nurtured and taken care of. Sure. It’s a leveller since you begin to suppose, ‘oh, am I going mad?’ However as you already know, I’m not mad as you already know, however sure, it’s been brutal and relentless and unforgiving.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: We’ll speak concerning the play, however I really feel we have now to speak about this as a result of if you say it’s been brutal and unforgiving, I believe we have to unpack that a bit of bit, about what has been brutal.
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, the aftermath has been one thing that I wasn’t anticipating. The demise threats and the rape threats in direction of not solely myself, however my daughter and the threats of demise to my son.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: By what? By Strictly followers?
Amanda Abbington: And Giovanni [Pernice] followers and… sure, it’s simply been, if you get like one or two of these, you’ll be able to sort of go, ‘oh, God’, you already know, however I used to be getting like dozens a day on socials, like dozens of individuals simply saying, ‘simply go and kill your self. I hope you die of most cancers. I hope, you already know… simply kill your self. Your children can be higher off with out you as a mom. I hope your daughter will get raped. I hope your son will get stabbed. You don’t deserve any good issues for what you’ve finished. How might you destroy one thing like Strictly. You’re a snowflake. You’re an fool. You’re silly. Poor Giovanni.’ And, it was simply on a regular basis.
So it was… after which, within the media, simply folks printing stuff that simply wasn’t true as effectively. Issues that didn’t occur. Didn’t occur. I used to be by no means requested again to the ultimate, and I learn a headline saying I’d snubbed the ultimate. I didn’t snub a closing. No person ever contacted me once more to be again in that present. Not that I in all probability would have been ready to return. However the concept that I snubbed it… As a result of I’d made some fantastic pals on that present and the folks, the contestants, and a number of the different dancers have been simply joyful. I didn’t snub anyone. I left that present with my head held excessive.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure. And we’re all nonetheless in contact?
Amanda Abbington: Yeah. We’re. We’re having a dinner quickly. Hopefully.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You talked about one of many issues folks name you is ‘snowflake.’
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And there are columns in the mean time which were written, saying, ‘oh, you already know, what’s incorrect with all these folks. They’re all simply weak. Dancing’s a troublesome sport. And don’t they perceive that it’s arduous work.’ You’re an actor. You already know what arduous work is?
Amanda Abbington: Yeah. This play is difficult work. It’s lovely. It’s emotionally difficult. It’s fantastic. We’re on stage for 90 minutes. There’s 4 of us. Every part is simply… it’s a whirlwind of a ravishing piece of storytelling. You’re in rehearsals from 10 to 6. It’s the identical factor. However you’ll be able to nurture, have a room that’s nurturing, and also you get the very best out of individuals if you take care of them, when there’s a responsibility of care, if you really feel like you’ll be able to fail and never really feel such as you’re silly.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I had the other expertise. I had a tremendous time.
Amanda Abbington: You probably did. Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: It was life altering and I used to be very completely satisfied.
Amanda Abbington: There have been a lot of folks in that specific, in our group that did.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure.
Amanda Abbington: Some that didn’t, some that did.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And so I sort of wish to perceive why it was totally different for you and I, we got here out of this in such totally different locations.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And it’s been very lengthy lasting.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: …for you, notably. And so, I imply, after we all started, you really texted me and mentioned, ‘so completely satisfied’.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, I used to be. I used to be.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: …if you received your reveal as to who your accomplice was.
Amanda Abbington: I used to be thrilled. After which I received a number of messages saying ‘I’m so sorry’.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What did you go into it considering?
Amanda Abbington: I went into it considering, that is going to be arduous work. I’m trying ahead to the problem. I wish to be taught new dances. It’s going to be enjoyable. It’s a Saturday evening tv present on BBC One, so there can be a component of arduous work. I get that. I’m a tough employee. I’m a grafter. However there can even be time to have fun and be… And I’ve been in rehearsal rooms all my life, so I do know what they’re like, and I understand how they are often. I wasn’t anticipating this, that’s all.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: As a result of I met a good friend of yours, I believe, within the first week, who informed me ‘Amanda’s going to win. She’s on this to win.’ And I used to be like ‘oh blimey, she’s actually critical.’ And also you have been nice. You have been very, superb very, in a short time.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So that you’d gone in there eager to work arduous.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, however I am going into something eager to work arduous. I’ve a powerful work ethic. The truth that folks suppose I’m lazy and that I used to be like, ‘she didn’t know what she was letting herself in for.’ Sure, I did, in fact I did. I do know what I used to be letting myself in for. I didn’t know I used to be letting myself in for that.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So what occurred?
Amanda Abbington: It wasn’t what I anticipated it to be. It was, I imply, I can’t go into too many particulars about it as a result of the criticism is ongoing with the BBC, and I can’t say something about it.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Simply clarify that, as a result of I believe lots of people are confused as to why you’re not capable of say extra.
Amanda Abbington: As a result of in the mean time they’re gathering proof from varied locations and from the BBC and from witnesses and from different dancers and from different choreographers and different witnesses and individuals who have been on the present previously. In order that they’re gathering all that data, after which they’re going to evaluate it. So I can’t discuss specifics what occurred, regardless that…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: That’s what they’ve informed you?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. So I’m going to honour that. I’m not going to say, ‘oh yeah. You already know, my criticism goes to be upheld’ as a result of I don’t, I hope it’s, as a result of it wasn’t good, and I wasn’t the one person who skilled that. Individuals earlier than me skilled the identical factor I did. If it had simply been me popping out saying all these things, I can perceive why folks go, ‘oh, God’, however there have been 5 or 6 different folks beforehand to me who had the identical expertise.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You mentioned it was abusive, merciless. You’re speaking about kind of, verbal…
Amanda Abbington: Sure. And it was pointless, and when that was getting thrown at me, I’d shut down as a result of I’ve been in abusive conditions earlier than previously. So I recognise the flag, I recognise the crimson flags. So I’d shut down and would cease, wouldn’t have the ability to do the job. I wouldn’t have the ability to do it as a result of I felt attacked. Not actually attacked. You need to be so cautious with what you say. Individuals will go, ‘effectively, you already know…’
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: We’re in a weird scenario now the place the bar of what’s abuse, now appears to be, ‘effectively, you’re being overwhelmed up.’
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And that’s probably not what that is about, is it?
Amanda Abbington: No. You possibly can have all kinds of abuse: emotional, bodily, psychological. Nevertheless it was simply, it was not conducive to a contented surroundings.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And that was apparent to everybody.
Amanda Abbington: I believe sure. I might have folks coming as much as me saying, ‘I’m so sorry. Are you okay? Can we do something? Are you okay?’ Within the group chats, everybody saying, ‘I’m so sorry. Amanda, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry’.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Yesterday, the director basic [of the BBC] mentioned he apologised to Strictly contestants. To not you particularly. What did you make of what he mentioned?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively I’m glad he’s acknowledged it. The factor is, you see, folks have been saying, I learn an article saying, ‘Amanda desires to carry down Strictly.’ No, I imply, I really like Strictly. I might liked to have had a ravishing expertise on it, I actually would. I’m envious of the individuals who had an exquisite expertise on that present, and I’m so glad they did. And I really feel actually unhappy that I didn’t get to fulfil my journey. I left as a result of there was… a medical factor occurred, which I can also’t go into in the mean time. However that was my catalyst for leaving. And after I discovered there was one thing incorrect, the aid I felt after I discovered that I had some, you already know, there was an issue. And that’s not a great kind of sense mechanism.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Simply to be clear, are you saying you left due to the medical difficulty or?
Amanda Abbington: No, that was my closing straw. That was my purpose for leaving, however…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: The official purpose?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. The underlying one was like,’ oh, thank God I don’t have to do that anymore. That’s given me a purpose, that’s given me a purpose to depart. As a result of I have to take care of that. That has to take priority. Now I’ve to get that sorted out and ensure I’m effectively.’ After which after I did that, I assumed, I don’t wish to get again into that room.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And the way did you’re feeling you have been handled by the BBC?
Amanda Abbington: I don’t know, as a result of I didn’t… I felt a bit of bit like, I assume, I felt a bit of bit like, ‘okay’, that’s the way it felt. I’m not going to be horrible. I received a number of messages afterwards from a number of the producers, simply checking in to see how I used to be. However then when all of the fallout occurred after which all people began piling on and the demise threats got here in and so they have been reported within the press, after which all of the misinformation went on the market, I didn’t actually hear from anyone once more although.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So there wasn’t aftercare after the top of the sequence?
Amanda Abbington: No no, no. No.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you suppose they need to have been?
Amanda Abbington: It might have been good. I suppose, sure, I suppose.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Did you go and see the counsellor?
Amanda Abbington: I did, sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: As a result of I went a few instances.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, I did, you already know, and it was positive.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: However that’s not sufficient.
Amanda Abbington: However you’ll be able to’t actually… I don’t know, if you have been in that room for 7 or 8 hours a day, you begin to settle for that because the norm. You begin to suppose, ‘okay, effectively’.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Effectively, that’s the factor isn’t it, as a result of the opposite factor that occurred throughout whereas we have been there was, these tales began popping out that every one was not proper.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: As a result of it’s the leakiest ship on the earth. And then you definitely went on Instagram and also you denied it, and also you mentioned that’s not true. I discovered {that a} bit complicated as a result of I assumed, ‘effectively, it’s true. Why are you saying that?’ Why did you’re feeling you needed to say that?
Amanda Abbington: As a result of I didn’t wish to rock the boat. I didn’t wish to upset, I wished it to appear to be it was, you already know, okay. And I wished it to work that’s the opposite factor, I did need… I used to be making an attempt my hardest each week to make that room a nicer place to be in. I genuinely was. I might are available stuffed with, ‘let’s do that’, and frequently let him down. Frequently.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: That’s the way you felt or that’s the way you have been made to really feel?
Amanda Abbington: Utterly. Each. Each. I felt like I used to be not doing a great job. I felt like I used to be letting him down. I used to be disappointing him.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You see, some folks will say, effectively, ‘is it you or is it what’s…’
Amanda Abbington: No, as a result of I…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: … it’s the way you have been being handled?’
Amanda Abbington: I’ll at all times take the blame for issues. Like I at all times say, ‘it was my fault, you already know? I’m sorry’, however I might examine myself and suppose, ‘no, this isn’t… I do know I’m not going mad. I’m not seeing this occur in lots of different rooms.’ Everybody’s having a pleasant time and I simply felt like I wasn’t, I wasn’t having a pleasant time. And I discovered it more and more troublesome to enter work.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I’m in an odd place in that I do know a number of the solutions to those questions, since you informed me stuff earlier than in confidence, that I’m not going to disclose. However what are you able to say about what really was happening? Was it simply verbal. Was it…?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively there’s 50 hours of footage, that’s being blocked. I imply, 50 hours is numerous footage. And numerous time spent in a room that was poisonous.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So that is footage after we have been all being filmed, for video or…?
Amanda Abbington: No, no, no, no. So within the first week, I raised my considerations to the producers, and so they in a short time mentioned ‘we’ll put…’ Effectively, I imply, Giovanni mentioned that he requested for the cameras. He didn’t ask for the cameras. I do know that he didn’t ask for the cameras, as a result of the producers got here to me and mentioned, ‘we’re going to place in cameras so we will view the footage on the finish of the week and make an evaluation and see what’s happening’. After which each Friday after that, for the subsequent kind of 5 weeks, I might get the producer saying on the Friday, ‘we’ve simply watched the footage, however we’re shocked and horrified. We’re so sorry’.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You had messages from them saying that?
Amanda Abbington: No, it was to my face on the Friday after we would go in and do the digicam rehearsal. In order that they, you already know, it’s out. It’s on the market. There’s proof on the market, what occurred in that room. And I’m not the one who’s blocking.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: However are you saying it’s bullying or what’s it?
Amanda Abbington: Sure, it’s bullying and it’s aggressive behaviour and there have been different issues that occurred that have been fairly, that have been very upsetting that you simply handle within the room on the time since you’re a lady and it’s a must to handle these issues. And it’s a must to handle these issues as a result of in any other case, what do you do?
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I heard not from you, from any person else about an occasion of, I suppose you’d name it humiliating behaviour, of a sexual nature. Is that proper?
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sorry.
Amanda Abbington: It’s all proper. It’s okay. Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Not harassment, however humiliation.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. I imply, you already know, one of many many issues. Sure. Sorry.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You wished the footage?
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And you may’t get it.
Amanda Abbington: No, I’m not allowed it.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And are you doing…
Amanda Abbington: Effectively my lawyer’s not allowed it.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Are you doing something to problem that?
Amanda Abbington: My lawyer is making an attempt to problem that.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: How are you difficult it?
Amanda Abbington: I don’t know. She’s superb. Persephanie is simply this most superb, unbelievable lady. And he or she’s making an attempt now to get a raise off on that as a result of I’ve mentioned anybody can watch it. However he doesn’t need anybody to see it, which is sort of telling, you already know, if you happen to’ve received nothing to cover.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Nevertheless it’s the BBC’s footage, in order that they’ve considered it, they’ll watch it, however you’ll be able to’t have it your self?
Amanda Abbington: I can’t have it myself, so I can’t assessment it. My legal professionals can’t assessment it and so they can’t make an evaluation. They will go by what I’ve informed them and messages that I’ve had from folks and textual content messages that I’ve had from previous contestants and individuals who know, you already know, however they’ll’t…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So when, when did different folks begin contacting you?
Amanda Abbington: The day it broke that I used to be dancing with him.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: His previous dance companions have been getting in contact with you and saying what?
Amanda Abbington: ‘I’m so sorry.’
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Actually? That’s a very odd factor to do.
Amanda Abbington: ‘I’m so sorry. You already know, you’ll have a… it’s going to be fairly powerful’.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Alright.
Amanda Abbington: I mentioned okay. Effectively, you already know, I’m fairly a troublesome outdated fowl. Clearly not that powerful. However, sure, I assumed I might… Sure. You already know, as a result of… I’ve been across the block a bit, you already know, however.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And when did you determine to truly put in a proper criticism?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, it was someday after I left as a result of I used to be umming and ahhing about it, as a result of I knew if I did that, then I’d get what subsequently has occurred to me, which is abuse and being known as a liar and kind of overreacting and unstable and mad and hysterical. However the purpose I did it was as a result of I spoke to 2 different contestants and so they got here to my home and we talked about it, and we mentioned our experiences. And my greatest good friend mentioned to me, ‘what would you do, you already know, in case your 70-year-old self appeared again, what would she really feel about this explicit second of your life? In case you don’t make a criticism, if you happen to don’t say one thing, how would you’re feeling?’ And I assumed, I’d in all probability really feel very responsible.
As a result of I didn’t need anybody else to undergo what I had been by in that room and what previous contestants had been by in that room. It might have sat actually uncomfortably with me had I recognized, realizing what I do know, allowed any person else to undergo that. I imply, they won’t have finished, I don’t know, however judging from different people who I’d spoken to previously who danced with him, they’d comparable experiences, and the concept of any person else having to undergo that, I used to be like, ‘oh, I don’t need that’. And all I wished to do was flag up dangerous behaviour.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What’s the purpose of your criticism? Are you suing the BBC or making an attempt…?
Amanda Abbington: No. Effectively my lawyer is, I preserve saying she’s fantastic, she’s received all types of issues happening in the mean time with this.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you suppose you have been owed a monetary settlement?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, I used to be handled badly, the lack of earnings and emotional trauma. Yeah, undoubtedly. I imply, I’ve had demise threats day after day and rape threats day after day. Simply because I mentioned, ‘I don’t suppose that is acceptable behaviour. Can we simply acknowledge this in any respect? Can we simply look into this, possibly? I do know it’s not endemic of Strictly. However there are pockets of issues that shouldn’t be taking place. Are you able to take a look at these and ensure that they don’t occur sooner or later? I’m not taking something away from Strictly. It’s an exquisite organisation and it’s a implausible factor on Saturday evening. I don’t need it to die. I would like it to have a life. However these items which are taking place aren’t proper, and so they should be checked out and so they’re not being checked out, and I believe they need to. For future folks going into the present as effectively.’ So I simply wished them to acknowledge that there was dangerous behaviour happening, not solely with me clearly, however with different folks, and that wanted to be addressed.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And have you ever been given any endeavor from the BBC as to what’s going to occur? Will they publish something? Will they let you know the outcomes of any investigation?
Amanda Abbington: No, they haven’t actually mentioned something to my legal professionals about something that’s taking place. We’re simply ready in the mean time. We’re ready. However I do know that lots of people went in to talk to them.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I do know there are different individuals who, all of the individuals who contacted you, are you working as a bunch or…?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. I imply I’m like I’m the official complainer.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So what number of are there?
Amanda Abbington: I believe there’s about 5 or 6 I believe from what I can collect.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Effectively in your group, who’re you the spokesman for? Is it 5 or 6?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, to be sincere, I don’t know the way many individuals have gone in to talk to them. I do know that there have been lots of people, however there are three… there’s three foremost folks…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Proper.
Amanda Abbington: …who made complaints. Mine’s the official one.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: However they don’t wish to establish themselves.
Amanda Abbington: No.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: They’ve been extensively talked about within the papers, or speculated about. The massive factor that modified was the revelation about Zara and Graziano. And the surprising revelation that one thing had occurred that was on digicam that we don’t know what it’s as a result of nobody has seen it, however it was mentioned to be kind of one thing bodily abusive. And that he acknowledged that he behaved badly. How did that change issues?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, for a second, folks have been like, ‘oh, okay, okay, possibly there’s something on this’. I believe folks don’t consider me. That’s what’s so upsetting, is that folks don’t consider what occurred in there was as critical as I’m… I do know I haven’t mentioned something as a result of I can’t, however, you already know, the concept that I might make one thing up like that, realizing how standard the present is and realizing how standard he’s, that I might make one thing up like that, to inform the world about it, anticipating a barrage… it baffles me to suppose that… I wasn’t going to do it as a result of I used to be fearful of not being believed. And really, because it seems, most individuals don’t consider me. Nevertheless it was my expertise.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So when there’s a case that’s acknowledged, and all people says ‘sure’.
Amanda Abbington: When there’s concrete proof and there’s footage, fairly understandably, folks go, ‘oh yeah, I do know’, however as a result of that is all simply what I’m saying and textual content messages from folks and, regardless that there’s 50 hours of footage on the market that’s there, it’s fairly irritating.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And did his behaviour change in any respect on digicam and off digicam? I imply, is there extra that occurred off digicam? Since you would have thought, any person who is aware of they’re being filmed, intentionally..
Amanda Abbington: Sure. I don’t actually perceive what..
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: ..would alter their behaviour.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. I believe it didn’t trouble him. I simply suppose it didn’t trouble him. I don’t know.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: My view on that, as a result of I used to be filmed about 30% of the time, was that we by no means imagined for a second that the footage was going for use for something apart from making us all look good.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So it didn’t matter. So, I imply, I cried, as a result of all of us had troublesome instances. Not as a result of I used to be being given any abuse, however as a result of it was tense, and troublesome and I used to be struggling at instances.
Amanda Abbington: And that’s tense when you’re with a accomplice who’s empathetic and is form.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure, precisely. I cried when Lauren mentioned, ‘how are you?’ And I began crying. Identical factor, as a result of I used to be simply discovering it bodily arduous and emotionally arduous. However my view on it was I didn’t want to regulate my behaviour as a result of the cameras have been on my aspect. In your case they have been there to watch behaviour?
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Nevertheless it didn’t make a distinction?
Amanda Abbington: No, no probably not. Clearly it didn’t, no, as a result of in any other case I wouldn’t have complained about it. I wouldn’t have complained about it, I wouldn’t have finished it except I actually felt like this was unfair.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Individuals have kind of mentioned, ‘that is concerning the dancers’ tradition.’ I imply, I believe it’s loads to do with dance tradition, and the way in which that they’ve all been skilled and grown up since they’ve little or no. It’s a brutal trade. It’s superb and exquisite, however it’s additionally actually, actually powerful. And if you happen to’ve been introduced up that manner, then that’s what you suppose coaching is. Do you suppose there’s something in that?
Amanda Abbington: No. As a result of I’m nonetheless pals with fairly a couple of of the dancers on Strictly and so they… It’s arduous. They educate, they’re good academics, however, you already know…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Most individuals know boundaries?
Amanda Abbington: Sure, I believe so. Sure, undoubtedly. I’m not out to, you already know, folks saying I’m out to damage any person… I’m not out to damage anyone’s profession. I’m not out to form, I’m not out to get anyone. I simply didn’t suppose the way in which that I used to be being taught in that room was useful or form or wholesome, and that’s why I mentioned one thing.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: However what concerning the strain of the entire thing as effectively? As a result of clearly, the longer they keep in, the upper profile they get, and the extra alternatives there are to develop into an even bigger character and a star in your individual proper. Does that sort of strain add to it?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. Because the weeks go on you already know they wish to win. I simply wished to do it as a result of I wished to be taught a couple of dances and have a pleasant time on a Saturday evening.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure, most of us.
Amanda Abbington: It was by no means going to be like I used to be becoming a member of the Marines. It was identical to, ‘oh yeah, I’d love to do this. I’ve at all times wished to do this’. However because the weeks go on, sure, it will get increasingly more, the strain is on, and I’m 52. I used to be 52 on the time. I’m not an athlete. I can’t do a number of the issues that he anticipated me to do. I’ll strive.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I noticed you kick your leg on the primary dance.
Amanda Abbington: However you already know it turns into increasingly more relentless, you already know? And you probably have any person who’s in that room, is form and takes care of you and, and is nurturing, then that’s nice.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Sure. Effectively, that’s what I had.
Amanda Abbington: Yeah, precisely. And I do know numerous different folks on that present had that as effectively. I used to be very envious.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What now then? As a result of the BBC has kind of mentioned its basic apology and that the present goes on.
Amanda Abbington: Which I’m more than happy about. I wished it to. I didn’t need it to finish. I believe it’s a British establishment. It’s implausible. However I believe I would like my criticism upheld.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you suppose chaperones make a giant distinction?
Amanda Abbington: I don’t know. I’m unsure. I believe, you already know..
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Given there have been folks within the room anyway.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, and so they weren’t allowed to say something. So I don’t know whether or not that can make an enormous quantity of distinction, I hope, possibly it’s going to if there’s coaching concerned or if there are folks sort of, you already know, to..
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you’ve gotten ideas of what ought to change. In the event that they got here to you and mentioned, ‘how can we cease this taking place?’ Which you’d have thought they’d’ve finished by now?
Amanda Abbington: I suppose, you already know, it’s like we’re not dancers who go onto that present. None of us are dancers. And so with that in thoughts, it’s to keep in mind that, it’s only a Saturday evening leisure present.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: In case you have been requested to write down the prescription. What would you say, that is what you want to do?
Amanda Abbington: I might say that I might converse to possibly the skilled dancers and say, ‘keep in mind that is alleged to be enjoyable. And these aren’t dancers, these people who are available right here. They only wish to have a pleasant time. They wish to be taught. They wish to work arduous, little question about that. Nevertheless it’s simply to keep in mind that it’s not… it needs to be enjoyable and it needs to be a sort place to work and it ought to, sure, the motivation to win on the finish shouldn’t drive you to behave badly.’ I don’t know what the reply is definitely. I don’t know. I don’t know whether or not chaperones would work. I don’t know whether or not, as a result of, it differs for each particular person as effectively.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And would you advise folks to do it? I don’t, as a result of I at all times say it’s so private, as a result of I mentioned ‘no’ for years.
Amanda Abbington: Sure, me too.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And it’s such a kind of a private choice. It’s a very large choice. So I at all times say, you already know, I wouldn’t ever advise anybody to do it or to not do it.
Amanda Abbington: It takes loads out of your life. You develop into consumed by it. When you have a pleasant particular person dancing with you, it’s one of the vital rewarding experiences I believe. Individuals I’ve labored with, with you, on our present who’ve fantastic recollections of it. And I believe it’s an awesome factor to do if you wish to have enjoyable and learn to dance and be terrified as effectively as a result of it’s a terrifying expertise. However, sure, I might suppose lengthy and arduous about doing it as a result of it does, like I say, it takes up numerous your time.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: It’ll be fascinating to see what number of girls and what girls have joined up this time and whether or not it’s been arduous to get folks.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. Sure. I don’t know.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You’re now doing a play about an abusive scenario.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Is that this a wholesome factor so that you can be doing?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. Sure. As a result of this play is, it’s a ravishing piece of storytelling, and it’s based mostly on a real story. Tawni O’Dell. It’s based mostly on her personal expertise together with her daughter. And it’s not a play that’s detrimental in any manner. It’s a kind of superbly crafted items of theatre that, if you watch it, you’re instantly in it and also you’re on a curler coaster. It’s 90 minutes, no interval. The actors are all on stage on the identical time for the entire thing. And it’s a journey, that comes out of, one thing that occurs to the daughter, and it’s an exploration of affection and overcoming that and coping with that and shifting ahead. And it’s life affirming, weirdly sufficient.
It’s a ravishing, life affirming piece of theatre and so doing it, being in a rehearsal room the place you’ll be able to simply fail or get it incorrect after which simply chuckle about it after which transfer on. What we’re getting out of that is… as a result of it’s such a nurturing place, the progress we’ve made with this play in two weeks is staggering as a result of it’s a secure place. So that you create if you’re in a secure place, you get extra out of the individual that you’re instructing otherwise you’re working with, if you happen to’re form and if you happen to’re beneficiant together with your spirit and your time.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: It’s therapeutic?
Amanda Abbington: It fully is. And this play is, this play is a ravishing therapeutic expertise.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You have been identified with PTSD.
Amanda Abbington: Sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What did that imply?
Amanda Abbington: That is the opposite factor. Like a physician informed me that, proper? A physician mentioned, ‘oh, you’ve received delicate PTSD’, and I mentioned, ‘oh, actually? That’s so bizarre’. And I informed my pals that, and so they have been like, ‘sure, we noticed you. We all know.’ As a result of I assumed it was ridiculous that I might have finished, as a result of folks have been saying, ‘oh, she’s received delicate PTSD. How dare she? Our poor veterans, our poor military.’ I used to be like, ‘I didn’t say it.’ I wasn’t the one which went, ‘hey, all people, I’ve come again from Vietnam. Take a look at me.’ And it wasn’t that. I used to be identified it by a physician. I informed folks, they then informed the press, and abruptly, I’m this villain who’s going, ‘yeah, I do know what individuals are like getting back from Afghanistan. It’s the identical factor.’ It wasn’t.
I’d been triggered in that room by previous experiences, and it nonetheless has a long-lasting impact on me. Like, I nonetheless can’t speak about sure issues that occurred in that room as a result of it instantly triggers a sense of tension. And that’s not proper. This can be a BBC present on a Saturday evening. This response shouldn’t occur from a BBC present. That’s loopy. So, sure, I used to be identified with it. I do nonetheless have hassle going out alone and feeling very uncovered. And after I speak about sure features of what occurred within the room, I do cry. I do get emotional, I do shake. As a result of it was terrible. It simply was terrible.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So how do you’re feeling about going through an viewers in right here? As a result of it’s very intimate.
Amanda Abbington: It’s a ravishing area and it’s an exquisite play. That’s the factor. I really feel secure right here as a result of I’ve been, we’ve labored in a room collectively for 2 and a half weeks now, and so this looks like I’ve come residence kind of factor. I do know, you already know, actors say ridiculous issues, however it does. It feels just like the Park Theatre generates a sense of security. Like you’ll be able to come on this theatre and it’s not rocket science. You possibly can simply really feel secure as a result of it’s full of people that have compassion and who, if there’s a drawback they’re instantly on it and go, ‘What? What’s happening? How can we take care of this? How can we make…’
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So that you’re not apprehensive about who’s going to be within the room, who’s coming and whether or not there’s Strictly followers coming?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively, in the event that they do then, you already know, I don’t know. If they arrive, I don’t actually perceive why they’d come in the event that they don’t like me as a result of they’ve paid cash to come back and see me. In order that they’re paying cash to come back and see me. I hope folks come and see this play, as a result of it’s a implausible piece of theatre about household and love and going through your challenges and, and shifting ahead and nurture and household.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Give me a way of the extracts that we’re going to see.
Amanda Abbington: We’re doing a chunk the place I say goodbye to my son on the airport as a result of it’s very stylised. So there’s no props. We have now no props on this play. There isn’t any, it’s simply 4 folks on a stage. We have now a fifth character which is actually the soundscape. It’s very filmic. It’s evocative and it brings up lovely pictures. All of the creatives, just like the set designer, the costume designer, the lighting designer, the sound designer, and the stage handle crew, all feminine. Jez made certain that we have now this lovely all feminine crew that may… and it looks like we’re making magic. It does. It’s a superb piece of theatre.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you are worried about your profession now? I imply, individuals who tackle the BBC, typically, and I believe I in all probability mentioned this to you very early on after I didn’t actually know the way dangerous issues have been, that it’s a harmful factor taking over an organisation as large because the BBC.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. Sure. However, you already know, be higher. Simply be higher. You already know, it’s not arduous. Simply pay attention to what’s happening. After which when it is happening, if you see it’s happening, nip it within the bud. Don’t don’t permit it to proceed.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Has anybody senior come to see you? Speak to you?
Amanda Abbington: No. No. No person. No person. I haven’t heard from anyone.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Who’s essentially the most senior particular person on the BBC who’s spoken to you since Strictly?
Amanda Abbington: I haven’t spoken to anybody from the BBC since Strictly. No person’s reached out to me since Strictly, both by me or by my lawyer. No person has…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Have you ever tried to talk to them? Tim Davie mentioned yesterday, ‘come and speak to me. You already know, if you happen to’ve had a nasty expertise.’
Amanda Abbington: Sure. Okay. Effectively, I’ll then.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Are you going to offer him a hoop?
Amanda Abbington: I’ll speak to him. I’ll inform him. I can inform him what occurred in that room. I don’t have any, I’m not ashamed of what I did in that room, as a result of I didn’t do something incorrect in that room. I didn’t do something incorrect in that room. That courtesy wasn’t prolonged to me. It’s simply so simple as that. And it might have been so simply as a result of there have been pockets of moments when that did occur, that he was good and he was optimistic. After which that shortly ended, and it grew to become unworkable once more, disastrously unworkable, horribly unworkable. So I do know what I did in that room, and I do know I did the very best I might do. I do know I labored as arduous as I might. I do know that I put in 100% dedication to that.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What do you suppose ought to occur to him? Ought to he be allowed again to do something?
Amanda Abbington: Effectively I can’t, I don’t…
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So far as you’re involved, that is kind of like..
Amanda Abbington: I’m not going to make any… I do know he’s made very disparaging feedback about me just lately in public.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Effectively referred to a mad lady who we will solely assume was you?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. And he’s additionally known as me unstable.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What did you consider that?
Amanda Abbington: I’ve been known as worse, but when he thinks I’m unstable, if he thinks my complaining about his instructing is unstable, then I’m so sorry. I’m actually sorry that you simply suppose that. It wasn’t solely about that, although. There have been many different issues that I needed to handle in that room. After which I might go residence and go, ‘that wasn’t proper, I shouldn’t. That’s dangerous. That was dangerous. ‘
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And the way are you going to get higher? It’s apparent how uncooked that is. You’ve received to get to a place the place you’ll be able to speak about this with out crying.
Amanda Abbington: Yeah.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: How do you try this?
Amanda Abbington: I suppose preserve speaking about it. And likewise simply making… permitting folks to have the ability to go and complain that’s the opposite factor. You already know, with the ability to go… not even complain, to voice your considerations. In case you really feel such as you’re being bullied otherwise you really feel like this factor, this example that you simply’re in, feels poisonous and unsafe, having the braveness to go and say one thing is so essential, and we aren’t cultivating that surroundings. We’re making out that girls who complain, not complain, girls who voice their considerations a few scenario are trolled by the press, despatched demise threats, rape threats, and never taken severely.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Usually by girls.
Amanda Abbington: Sure. What I skilled in that room occurred. I do know it occurred as a result of it occurred to me. And I’m not a sensational particular person. I’m not hysterical. I don’t make issues out to be greater than they’re. I do know what occurred to me in that room wasn’t acceptable. I complained about it and kind of haven’t been taken severely. Not solely me, three different girls and extra probably coming ahead.
We have now to domesticate a society, an surroundings the place girls can come ahead and say, sure, or males, as a result of it occurs to males as effectively: ‘I’m discovering this uncomfortable. Are you able to do one thing about it?’ After which one thing might be finished about it. That’s all. And I believe we should be courageous. And I wish to get up for any lady, any lady who feels that they don’t have a voice. I can be there for her, championing her and saying, ‘sure, I’ve received you.’
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: The problem with these types of conditions is usually that folks within the trade, who are sometimes males in cost, will say, ‘Amanda Abbington, can we wish to threat her?’
Amanda Abbington: Sure, I do know. However I haven’t finished something incorrect. All I did was go, ‘this isn’t proper, is it?’ That’s all I did. And if you happen to’re behaving effectively, I’m not going to say that. And 99% of the time, in every little thing I’ve ever finished, it’s been a ravishing expertise. It’s been an exquisite expertise. It needed to have been actually dangerous for me to have complained.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: However this sort of work can be the way you get well I assume?
Amanda Abbington: Sure. I really like my job. I really like my job. I’ve misplaced numerous confidence in my job, in my means. Actually. I really feel very susceptible and uncovered and haven’t any confidence in the mean time. Sure, however that is my, you already know, notably working… Like this was the right job to come back again to. The Park Theatre and dealing with Jez and doing this play. It was the right antidote to what I had skilled.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: The bizarre factor about confidence is, you had a horrible time, however you’re a good dancer. All people mentioned that.
Amanda Abbington: Apparently sure.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So the one factor you shouldn’t be missing in is confidence in your means?
Amanda Abbington: Sure, however if you happen to’ve been informed that you’re not superb, you sort of consider it. That’s what occurs I assume. However hopefully, it is a lovely play and it must be seen and it’s received a really highly effective message.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What are you able to inform me concerning the story of the play?
Amanda Abbington: It’s by Tawni O’Dell, who’s an American novelist and author, and he or she had an expertise that occurred to her daughter and this play is concerning the fallout from that, and the way a household come collectively and take care of this factor that occurred. Rape is on the centre of it, however it’s not a play about rape. It’s a play about every little thing that occurs out of that, and the ripple impact of what that horrible factor has occurred, and the way love and nurture and proudly owning that may conquer that. It’s a play about hope and it’s a play about pleasure and shifting on. There are some lovely moments. You’ll chuckle, and you’ll cry in all probability on the identical time. It’s a totally lovely, uplifting piece of theatre. After I learn it, I learn it in a single sitting and I spoke to Jez and I mentioned ‘I’ve to do that. This needs to be on the market as a result of it can be crucial as a result of additionally it’s so superbly written.’ And the way in which that Jez is doing it, with the lighting and the sound, the soundscapes and the motion in it, and the three different actors. We’ve received three different lovely actors in it, and it’s a labour of affection and you are feeling that if you’re in it, and definitely if you watch it.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Thanks for doing this.
Amanda Abbington: Thanks for having me.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: It was pretty to see you once more.
Amanda Abbington: Pretty to see you too. Thanks.
In a press release Giovanni Pernice’s representatives mentioned: “We’re cooperating totally with the BBC’s assessment course of. All events have been requested to respect this course of and to not converse to the media earlier than it concludes. We’ll proceed to respect the integrity of the investigation and consider it’s the best discussion board for all of the proof to be reviewed.
“As a part of the evidence-led assessment, the BBC has shared the allegations they’ve been capable of substantiate with us. They don’t resemble Amanda’s newest allegations, given to Channel 4, in any form or kind. Giovanni refutes any declare of threatening or abusive behaviour, and having supplied the BBC together with his proof, is assured that the assessment will show this.”
The BBC mentioned: “Anybody concerned in a criticism has a proper to confidentiality and truthful course of and due to this fact it could be inappropriate to remark additional on people. Nevertheless, when points are raised with us we at all times take them extraordinarily severely and have applicable processes in place to handle this. As we have now mentioned earlier than, we might urge folks to not bask in hypothesis.
“Extra typically, the BBC and BBC Studios takes responsibility of care extraordinarily severely. Our processes on Strictly Come Dancing are up to date yearly, they’re saved below fixed assessment and final week we introduced further steps to additional strengthen welfare and assist on the present. “
