Out of Mark Zuckerberg’s three-hour interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast, one remark stood out to me. The Meta CEO stated that giant firms wanted extra “masculine power”, as a result of the company world was turning into “culturally neutered”.
“I believe having a tradition that celebrates the aggression a bit extra has its personal deserves which can be actually constructive,” he informed Rogan. After the interview, quite a few commentators rushed to accuse the Meta CEO of poisonous masculinity, and of getting a “poisonous revamp”.
Zuckerberg has beforehand mentioned his love of martial arts and butchering his personal meat – anecdotes that may be seen to advertise a view of masculinity steeped in archaic rhetoric about male aggression and energy.
Poisonous masculinity is usually outlined as “the constellation of socially regressive male traits that serve to foster domination, the devaluation of ladies, homophobia and wanton violence”. This definition was used to explain males in jail by psychiatrist Terry Kupers in 2005, however he additionally argued that these traits have been current within the male inhabitants at giant.
But arguably, Zuckerberg’s remark is reflective of a sure type of patriarchy relatively than merely poisonous masculinity.
In a patriarchy, males’s energy over girls is the norm, embedded within the cultural and financial programs that males have constructed and through which they thrive, and from which girls are steadily excluded. Many teachers, myself included, have been at pains to outline poisonous masculinity as distinctive from patriarchy – not all qualities related to male energy (assume management, energy) are essentially “poisonous”.
Certainly, analysis has proven that in lots of circles, masculinity has turn out to be extra inclusive of various views of “how you can be a person”. However Zuckerberg’s feedback present {that a} particular view of masculinity as aggressive nonetheless holds energy in probably the most influential areas. Because of this, the excellence between poisonous masculinity and patriarchy turns into blurred.
How patriarchy harms women and men
In a patriarchy, even when just a few males are in cost, all males profit from the unequal therapy of ladies, which is named the patriarchal dividend. Even when some males aren’t clearly highly effective, they may profit from issues like sure jobs or college programs being extra male-orientated.
Patriarchy has an extended historical past, and as males started wars and fought for domination, concepts about variations between women and men turned extra pronounced. These concepts are mirrored at the moment in gender stereotypes, just like the view that ladies are extra caring and nurturing, and males are naturally violent and aggressive.
These norms, that are perpetuated by mother and father and society from delivery, hurt males in addition to girls, for instance by speaking to boys that they should be aggressive and can’t share their feelings. It additionally makes issues harder for folks of all genders who problem norms of gender and sexuality.
In addition they create a smokescreen round what women and men are “good at” by way of the office. That there are extra males within the tech trade doesn’t imply that males are higher at technologically refined work than girls are. It’s merely that males have better alternatives than girls do.
That is arguably evident in statistics that present girls are vastly underrepresented in computing, maths and IT roles. By saying that firms want extra “aggression” and “masculine power”, Zuckerberg sends a good stronger message that ladies aren’t welcome.
Learn extra:
Mark Zuckerberg thinks workplaces have to ‘man up’ − here is why that is dangerous for all workers, regardless of their gender
Threats to patriarchy
It’s troublesome to argue that Zuckerberg’s enterprise has been “neutered”, when Meta made a web revenue of US$62 billion (£50 billion) in 2024. However this can be a compelling narrative to males who really feel that their place on the prime is likely to be below risk.
One of many issues that males who profit from patriarchy worry is shedding energy. That is mirrored in current political traits. Within the US, this worry has been abated by Donald Trump successful the election, whereas displaying historically strong-man practices of misogyny, entitlement and wealth.
This would possibly additional clarify why within the UK, self-proclaimed misogynist Andrew Tate claims he’s concerned about working for prime minister. In lots of instances, whoever is in energy units the tone for what model of patriarchy is taken into account dominant.
Learn extra:
Trump represents a particular kind of masculinity – and it is harmful for girls
A lot of that is a part of a backlash to the obvious positive factors girls have made. A current survey of younger folks within the UK discovered that 45% of male respondents aged 13 to 27 stated “we’ve got gone up to now in selling girls’s equality that we’re discriminating towards males”.
Certainly, Zuckerberg commented to Rogan that the world had “swung culturally” to a view that “masculinity is poisonous and we’ve got to do away with it fully”. I’d argue that it’s not about eliminating masculinity, however about recognising that there will be multiple approach of being a person.
Chip Somodevilla/EPA-EFE
Patriarchy is a hegemonic system, which means that males being in a extra highly effective place than girls is accepted by each as “the pure order of issues”. Additionally it is bolstered by views on race and skill that maintain white, wealthy, able-bodied males on the prime. That that is socially valued in US politics at the moment is obvious in who was given delight of place at Trump’s inauguration: Zuckerberg and his fellow “broligarchs” Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.
However what figures like Zuckerberg ought to bear in mind is {that a} inflexible view of masculinity and “masculine power” is dangerous to males as effectively, regardless of the methods through which they profit from patriarchy. It’s recognized to result in shutting down feelings in males and even suicide. To not point out that hypermasculine power can have a detrimental impact on workplaces, together with resulting in burnout and bullying.
Zuckerberg himself took paternity depart after the delivery of his first daughter. He should know that it’s attainable for masculinity to be composed of issues apart from aggression – however maybe he wants reminding.
